dbborroughs (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} dbborroughs) wrote,@ 2007-10-07 10:25:00 |
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saturday- surviving superheroes and boxing
I survived- I think.
It was a several days adventures rolled into one. I had good company, however because it was the way the day went we ended up crashing into each other.
The day started by over sleeping- then out the door at 730 am.
Fog on the road to the train station made it like a stephen king novel since you didn't know what tentacled beast was just around the corner.
I arrived at Lucy's earlier then planned and after much "oh crap I'm not dressed and I'm still on the phone" and her declining to let me come back later I was admitted to her fancy abode.
After time slipped away from us as things to leave were done (shower-Lucy not me) we headed off back to the train. Running a tad late-late enough that we were going to be pressed for lunch time- Lucy got a tea at the Chinese bakery.
The effects of the tea were not good and we had to leave the subway in the hopes that Lucy would feel better...
Feeling better she got a blueberry smoothie which actually calmed things down, which meant the mad dash to the Highline ballroom was on again.
Arriving just as the New Yorker Panel Up Up and Away was starting, we were seated by a waitress upon whom we had been thrust rather rudely.(we started uo stairs and then ended up down stairs to one side in seats that actually were better then we had any right to have.
The panel was on superheroes. It consisted of the creator of Heroes, Jonathan Lethem, Mike Mignola and Grant Morrison. It was a good panel but not really worth the 25 bucks a seat they charged. It wasn't much beyond a normal comic panel twisted up by the New York intelligentsia, meaning they dealt more with ideas rather than details. I good deal of it didn't really stick with me because much of it had to do with Heroes, which I don't watch so I couldn't get the references, or with Jonathan Lethem over thinking things and taking much of the spotlight. (I found it appropriate that Lethem, with his good looks, big hair and "I'm clever attitude" bookended, or was the bread of the sandwich of the seating with the guy from Heroes who was very well spoken but had the speaking manner of a guy who has been too long in Hollywood and seems to be either pitching his ideas or talking down to a moneyman since the meat of the discussions really came from Mignola and Morrison)
What did I remember?
Morrison talking about how the British effect on American comics in the 80's was the result of the British writers growing up on a mix of British and American comics, and that the British comics tended to be darker then the American (The Spider was a good guy who killed people and kidnapped children). In answer to a later question Morrison said that the line between superhero and non superhero comics doesn't exist for many British writers since they started by writing non superhero stuff and then moved over.
A discussion of how American superheros tended to be brought a discussion of how heroes is intentionally going against that, how they are trying to make it a bigger thing than just America. Lethem used it to say that he always thought it was cool that all the Marvel heroes were in New York since it meant that he he could possibly meet them-Dr STrange could be his parents friend sort of thing. Morrison mentioned how X-Men changed that by bringing in people from elsewhere (I could be wrong about it being Morrison.)
There was much discussion of archetypes in superheroes. Morrison went on about his pantheon of gods ideas. And there was a discussion of why we look to them. One person asked why people like Jung never talk about superheroes and it was pointed out that they kind of came after him so he really didn't have a chance to look into them. (a discussion of why superheroes appealed to small boys left me slack jawed as Lethem went on into a long discussion of how it all has to do with the duel identity thing- how you could be both the cool guy and the nobody. Forgive me I found it bullshit since anyone I've ever talked to said it had to do more with wish fulfillment and doing things we can't)
A question of limits of power brought on an interesting discussion of how strong is too strong. The powers of Superman were discussed. Mignola discussed the ever changing nature of Hellboy (he's not a super hero but he's red) and how his invincibility is based on how he perceives his father. This morphed into a discussion of how things are changing in Hellboy so that he's being more human and having to deal with if he is the beast of the Apocalypse. Morrison discussed how superman is more interesting when he's the man- how he can move planets but one word from Lois crushes him. The Heroes guy talked about how the limits of powers and such are going to be explored in the show. He said the characters still don't know what they can do. (There was also a discussion of is the power a power or an affliction. He added that we will see some harmful powers.He said that he tried not to read about other superheroes too much when doing the show since there are ultimately only a limited number of powers and he disn't want to feel its all been done before.)
Mignola said that he's happy just writing now (Marvel and DC didn't know what to do with him until he plotted his own story on a whim and they liked it. He then decided to do Hellboy so he could do what he wanted and draw monsters). The happiest thing he said he wrote was the story he got from his daughter. (Lethem said his best thing is fortress of Solitude since so much of him is in it. Morrison said the F projects, the Filth and Flex Mentallo. The Heroes guy said superhero wise the best thing is the pilot)
they were asked about the stupidest heroes they've seen. Two of the Legion of superheroes were mentioned (matter eater lad and the guy who could become a superball). Lethem said the worst was some of the ones he and his friends made up -Chronos who always knew exactly what time it was or Inaudible girl who could make herself unheard. Morrison said that he tried to sell DC on a one shot comic about a time traveler who traveled in real time. The whole book would have been panels of him sitting in his time machine moving in real time.
The final question was who would win a race Flash or Superman. Morrsion insisted-with the conviction of someone who's thought this out way too much- that the Flash would win because after all look at how thick the soles of his shoes are.
My impression of the panelists was mixed. Jonathan Lethem left me cold. he seemed too full of himself and too willing to take the floor (and he almost killed me when he was running for a cab). Mignola, as always seemed to very nice and the sort of guy you'd want to have a beer with. The Heroes guy seemed nice. Again too used to talking to nonfans. Morrison was clearly the smartest man in the room but he never showed off he just opened his mouth and things fell out like a detailed mini history of superman. He's the guy you invite over to dinner to argue bullshit with because he knows what he's talking about and damned funny as well.(As I said to Lucy, Alan Moore seems to know everything and he's willing to show off to impress you. Morrison seems to know everything but doesn't show off he floors you by how he connects things and refers to stuff so that its all weaved together.)
After the panel we went to Chelsea Markets which is a collection of food places in this great old building (there's a post on the place and its "waterfall"). The trouble was that it was late enough in the day that if I ate I'd mess with my dinner- but lucy needed to eat. We grabbed noshes here and there. It was at this point as I wound down that we started getting snarky. I had made no plans for after since Lucy, I thought would be at Housing Works where she volunteers. With no direction, being hungry and tired (I'd been up since 6am, in motion since 730, and it was now after 3pm) we started to snipe at each other. About an hour later we ended up arguing with each other on 6th Avenue before we began to patch things up (we're too long friends to not get into a tiff occasionally and while I'm dumb sometimes I do know that I'd be a complete fool to let one of the best people in my life ever leave. Hopefully I've never hurt her too much) and wandered into Books of Wonder. Lucy took pictures of her poppet reading books and eating cupcakes and I wandered about marveling at a small Japanese baby who crawled around the store like the wind.
After that we wandered to Union Square Park where We picked up apple cider and a subway to Penn Station. After dropping Lucy I met my Dad and we walked over to Heartland Brewery in the Empire State Building for dinner. The idea was to get some food in an uncrowded place near Madison Square Garden. There was a wedding going on upstairs but we still managed to get seated. Dad had an pale Ale which he really liked (my other reason for going to the Brewery-Dad could try the beer.)
We then wandered over to the Garden for boxing. Once inside we found it very empty. The promised headline fight had been changed because on of the fighters was injured in training. Aside from that the card was never going to be huge draw since most of the fighters weren't names.(Never mind that there are so many titles that 3 of the 4 fights I saw were heavyweight title fights) It was so empty that if you moved everyone into all the seats closest to the ring you'd only have filled the floor and the 100 section (the garden has three more sections)
The main event was on Showtime which was simulcast on the scoreboard. The earlier fights were taped for broadcast on cable
We missed the first fight of five getting food, however the second fight was a very good. I don't remember who it was that was fighting. I just remember watching the knock out which collapsed the losing fighter and made him contort in ways that are really scary. I've seen people get knocked out before but not like this, not the way they fold up and contort. It was so fast in reality we had to watch the replays to see what happened. Amazingly the guy git up and staggered to his corner.
The second fight was Andrew Golota against Kevin McBride.There were some Irish in the place supporting McBride, but mostly the garden was filled with Polish fans drinking beer,chanting loudly in Polish and running amok. The fight was hours off and they were cheering for Golota. It was wild as dad and I wondered is the New York or Warsaw. It was crazy and indescribable as the Poles screamed and yelled with every punch. Its was more entertaining then the entertaining fight to just watch the people around us carry on.(or in one case we watched one guy carried to and from his seat.) Their loud boisterousness brought the place alive and made it so one didn't need caffeine.
When the fight ended the silence was deafening. Man Poles left and the ones that stayed became quiet. The next fight a welterweight elimination bought was good but not great. Only the knockout at the end brought any real excitement.
With lots of time to kill before show time went on the air lots of people were brought into the ring. We had the American and Nigerian national anthems.There was also a good many introductions of people in attendance. we also were treated, if thats the word, by a performance by reggae star Shaggy. Clearly it was being lip synced since Shggy's speaking voce was much louder than the music. As he started to sing he asked for people to put their hands up and some did. He said make noise and people screamed...and then he sang-I think we were too far away to know if he was.-Then he said make some noise and poeple did. and he sang some more (we couldn't make out one word he was "singing") and then he said "Okay you take it" and held out the mic so we- the audience could sing along. DEAD SILENCE. two seconds later hysterical laughter as everyone realized no had any desire or ability to sing along. Shaggy plodded on.
Eventually we got to the main event which was Samuel Peter vs Jameel McCline. It was a good fight that managed to be exciting because MCline beat up Peter for the second and third round, no one had ever done that before and it looked like an upset was in the offing. It never happened, Peter won by decision-though the judges clearly saw a different fight which they didn't have as close as everyone around me.
Home about an hour earlier than expected I found my Internet down. I also attempted to contact Citibank because I realized that I never got a new ATM card. Their automated system was of no help and I'm pretty much out of cash until I can go into a branch on Tuesday.(How can I put in the new card number when you never sent me a new card?)
And found out my watch died.
I then staggered to bed and waited for sleep to take me.
I survived- I think.
It was a several days adventures rolled into one. I had good company, however because it was the way the day went we ended up crashing into each other.
The day started by over sleeping- then out the door at 730 am.
Fog on the road to the train station made it like a stephen king novel since you didn't know what tentacled beast was just around the corner.
I arrived at Lucy's earlier then planned and after much "oh crap I'm not dressed and I'm still on the phone" and her declining to let me come back later I was admitted to her fancy abode.
After time slipped away from us as things to leave were done (shower-Lucy not me) we headed off back to the train. Running a tad late-late enough that we were going to be pressed for lunch time- Lucy got a tea at the Chinese bakery.
The effects of the tea were not good and we had to leave the subway in the hopes that Lucy would feel better...
Feeling better she got a blueberry smoothie which actually calmed things down, which meant the mad dash to the Highline ballroom was on again.
Arriving just as the New Yorker Panel Up Up and Away was starting, we were seated by a waitress upon whom we had been thrust rather rudely.(we started uo stairs and then ended up down stairs to one side in seats that actually were better then we had any right to have.
The panel was on superheroes. It consisted of the creator of Heroes, Jonathan Lethem, Mike Mignola and Grant Morrison. It was a good panel but not really worth the 25 bucks a seat they charged. It wasn't much beyond a normal comic panel twisted up by the New York intelligentsia, meaning they dealt more with ideas rather than details. I good deal of it didn't really stick with me because much of it had to do with Heroes, which I don't watch so I couldn't get the references, or with Jonathan Lethem over thinking things and taking much of the spotlight. (I found it appropriate that Lethem, with his good looks, big hair and "I'm clever attitude" bookended, or was the bread of the sandwich of the seating with the guy from Heroes who was very well spoken but had the speaking manner of a guy who has been too long in Hollywood and seems to be either pitching his ideas or talking down to a moneyman since the meat of the discussions really came from Mignola and Morrison)
What did I remember?
Morrison talking about how the British effect on American comics in the 80's was the result of the British writers growing up on a mix of British and American comics, and that the British comics tended to be darker then the American (The Spider was a good guy who killed people and kidnapped children). In answer to a later question Morrison said that the line between superhero and non superhero comics doesn't exist for many British writers since they started by writing non superhero stuff and then moved over.
A discussion of how American superheros tended to be brought a discussion of how heroes is intentionally going against that, how they are trying to make it a bigger thing than just America. Lethem used it to say that he always thought it was cool that all the Marvel heroes were in New York since it meant that he he could possibly meet them-Dr STrange could be his parents friend sort of thing. Morrison mentioned how X-Men changed that by bringing in people from elsewhere (I could be wrong about it being Morrison.)
There was much discussion of archetypes in superheroes. Morrison went on about his pantheon of gods ideas. And there was a discussion of why we look to them. One person asked why people like Jung never talk about superheroes and it was pointed out that they kind of came after him so he really didn't have a chance to look into them. (a discussion of why superheroes appealed to small boys left me slack jawed as Lethem went on into a long discussion of how it all has to do with the duel identity thing- how you could be both the cool guy and the nobody. Forgive me I found it bullshit since anyone I've ever talked to said it had to do more with wish fulfillment and doing things we can't)
A question of limits of power brought on an interesting discussion of how strong is too strong. The powers of Superman were discussed. Mignola discussed the ever changing nature of Hellboy (he's not a super hero but he's red) and how his invincibility is based on how he perceives his father. This morphed into a discussion of how things are changing in Hellboy so that he's being more human and having to deal with if he is the beast of the Apocalypse. Morrison discussed how superman is more interesting when he's the man- how he can move planets but one word from Lois crushes him. The Heroes guy talked about how the limits of powers and such are going to be explored in the show. He said the characters still don't know what they can do. (There was also a discussion of is the power a power or an affliction. He added that we will see some harmful powers.He said that he tried not to read about other superheroes too much when doing the show since there are ultimately only a limited number of powers and he disn't want to feel its all been done before.)
Mignola said that he's happy just writing now (Marvel and DC didn't know what to do with him until he plotted his own story on a whim and they liked it. He then decided to do Hellboy so he could do what he wanted and draw monsters). The happiest thing he said he wrote was the story he got from his daughter. (Lethem said his best thing is fortress of Solitude since so much of him is in it. Morrison said the F projects, the Filth and Flex Mentallo. The Heroes guy said superhero wise the best thing is the pilot)
they were asked about the stupidest heroes they've seen. Two of the Legion of superheroes were mentioned (matter eater lad and the guy who could become a superball). Lethem said the worst was some of the ones he and his friends made up -Chronos who always knew exactly what time it was or Inaudible girl who could make herself unheard. Morrison said that he tried to sell DC on a one shot comic about a time traveler who traveled in real time. The whole book would have been panels of him sitting in his time machine moving in real time.
The final question was who would win a race Flash or Superman. Morrsion insisted-with the conviction of someone who's thought this out way too much- that the Flash would win because after all look at how thick the soles of his shoes are.
My impression of the panelists was mixed. Jonathan Lethem left me cold. he seemed too full of himself and too willing to take the floor (and he almost killed me when he was running for a cab). Mignola, as always seemed to very nice and the sort of guy you'd want to have a beer with. The Heroes guy seemed nice. Again too used to talking to nonfans. Morrison was clearly the smartest man in the room but he never showed off he just opened his mouth and things fell out like a detailed mini history of superman. He's the guy you invite over to dinner to argue bullshit with because he knows what he's talking about and damned funny as well.(As I said to Lucy, Alan Moore seems to know everything and he's willing to show off to impress you. Morrison seems to know everything but doesn't show off he floors you by how he connects things and refers to stuff so that its all weaved together.)
After the panel we went to Chelsea Markets which is a collection of food places in this great old building (there's a post on the place and its "waterfall"). The trouble was that it was late enough in the day that if I ate I'd mess with my dinner- but lucy needed to eat. We grabbed noshes here and there. It was at this point as I wound down that we started getting snarky. I had made no plans for after since Lucy, I thought would be at Housing Works where she volunteers. With no direction, being hungry and tired (I'd been up since 6am, in motion since 730, and it was now after 3pm) we started to snipe at each other. About an hour later we ended up arguing with each other on 6th Avenue before we began to patch things up (we're too long friends to not get into a tiff occasionally and while I'm dumb sometimes I do know that I'd be a complete fool to let one of the best people in my life ever leave. Hopefully I've never hurt her too much) and wandered into Books of Wonder. Lucy took pictures of her poppet reading books and eating cupcakes and I wandered about marveling at a small Japanese baby who crawled around the store like the wind.
After that we wandered to Union Square Park where We picked up apple cider and a subway to Penn Station. After dropping Lucy I met my Dad and we walked over to Heartland Brewery in the Empire State Building for dinner. The idea was to get some food in an uncrowded place near Madison Square Garden. There was a wedding going on upstairs but we still managed to get seated. Dad had an pale Ale which he really liked (my other reason for going to the Brewery-Dad could try the beer.)
We then wandered over to the Garden for boxing. Once inside we found it very empty. The promised headline fight had been changed because on of the fighters was injured in training. Aside from that the card was never going to be huge draw since most of the fighters weren't names.(Never mind that there are so many titles that 3 of the 4 fights I saw were heavyweight title fights) It was so empty that if you moved everyone into all the seats closest to the ring you'd only have filled the floor and the 100 section (the garden has three more sections)
The main event was on Showtime which was simulcast on the scoreboard. The earlier fights were taped for broadcast on cable
We missed the first fight of five getting food, however the second fight was a very good. I don't remember who it was that was fighting. I just remember watching the knock out which collapsed the losing fighter and made him contort in ways that are really scary. I've seen people get knocked out before but not like this, not the way they fold up and contort. It was so fast in reality we had to watch the replays to see what happened. Amazingly the guy git up and staggered to his corner.
The second fight was Andrew Golota against Kevin McBride.There were some Irish in the place supporting McBride, but mostly the garden was filled with Polish fans drinking beer,chanting loudly in Polish and running amok. The fight was hours off and they were cheering for Golota. It was wild as dad and I wondered is the New York or Warsaw. It was crazy and indescribable as the Poles screamed and yelled with every punch. Its was more entertaining then the entertaining fight to just watch the people around us carry on.(or in one case we watched one guy carried to and from his seat.) Their loud boisterousness brought the place alive and made it so one didn't need caffeine.
When the fight ended the silence was deafening. Man Poles left and the ones that stayed became quiet. The next fight a welterweight elimination bought was good but not great. Only the knockout at the end brought any real excitement.
With lots of time to kill before show time went on the air lots of people were brought into the ring. We had the American and Nigerian national anthems.There was also a good many introductions of people in attendance. we also were treated, if thats the word, by a performance by reggae star Shaggy. Clearly it was being lip synced since Shggy's speaking voce was much louder than the music. As he started to sing he asked for people to put their hands up and some did. He said make noise and people screamed...and then he sang-I think we were too far away to know if he was.-Then he said make some noise and poeple did. and he sang some more (we couldn't make out one word he was "singing") and then he said "Okay you take it" and held out the mic so we- the audience could sing along. DEAD SILENCE. two seconds later hysterical laughter as everyone realized no had any desire or ability to sing along. Shaggy plodded on.
Eventually we got to the main event which was Samuel Peter vs Jameel McCline. It was a good fight that managed to be exciting because MCline beat up Peter for the second and third round, no one had ever done that before and it looked like an upset was in the offing. It never happened, Peter won by decision-though the judges clearly saw a different fight which they didn't have as close as everyone around me.
Home about an hour earlier than expected I found my Internet down. I also attempted to contact Citibank because I realized that I never got a new ATM card. Their automated system was of no help and I'm pretty much out of cash until I can go into a branch on Tuesday.(How can I put in the new card number when you never sent me a new card?)
And found out my watch died.
I then staggered to bed and waited for sleep to take me.
